Did I just do that?
Oct. 5th, 2009 12:42 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
pezOh, I appear to have signed up to a writing thing. Not due for five months, though. Gives me plenty of time to write, rewrite and rerewrite.
[deleted paragraph] Since the comments are pretty interesting I'm going to unlock this entry and I don't want what was here to be public. XD
[edit] Massive huge spoilers for TLR in the comments, don't read if you don't want to be spoiled. (I guess that's just![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
vanillafire on my friends list right now. XD)
[deleted paragraph] Since the comments are pretty interesting I'm going to unlock this entry and I don't want what was here to be public. XD
[edit] Massive huge spoilers for TLR in the comments, don't read if you don't want to be spoiled. (I guess that's just
vanillafire on my friends list right now. XD)
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Date: 2009-10-05 10:28 am (UTC)I think this is why I'm so hooked on TLR, really--the world feels far, far huger and deeper than the parts Rush gets to see.
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Date: 2009-10-05 10:34 am (UTC)Sometimes I try to imagine how Athlum - and how David - handles things without Valeria Heart. Dave can do a lot of things, but stopping earthquakes is not one of them.
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Date: 2009-10-05 10:39 am (UTC)What about Balterossa without water? And Royotia with a big explodey volcano ready to blow up?
(I've been screenshotting any explanations of what the various Great Remnants do this time around, because man, that's going to be a *messed-up* world to live in after the end of the game.)
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Date: 2009-10-05 10:49 am (UTC)Maybe there's UST between those two.I wonder why Rush didn't know Oswald before. Maybe Marina and Oswald didn't want him to know about the involvement with the Academy, but it isn't like the rest of the world doesn't think Oswald's just some random old man...
Civilisations are built around Remnants... I suppose that probably means there will be huge scale migrations once they realise their situations aren't sustainable. ;_; Either that or they'll have to find the Remnants again. >D
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Date: 2009-10-05 10:56 am (UTC)Oswald used to be Nagapur's lord, according to one NPC. But the Hermeiens have ruled Nagapur for generations, according to another. Is Oswald one of the Hermeien family? It adds a whole new level of crazy to things.
I sort of wonder why people settled where they did, frankly--I mean, okay, Royotia because of the mining, maybe. It's hard to explain with Athlum, though. Maybe they settled where they found the Remnants?
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Date: 2009-10-05 11:06 am (UTC)*headtilt* As far as I could piece together from the game, Oswald is Wilfred Hermeien's dad. That makes Marina and Wilfred brothers and sisters, although obviously Marina was adopted.
They settled around Remnants. I think it's the North American official site that says that, during the loading screens. Probably like Wagram said, long ago people used to worship Remnants, so settling around them wouldn't be a strange thing to do.
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Date: 2009-10-05 11:25 am (UTC)So Hermeien is (Rush and) Irina's uncle? Whole new overtones of creepy to everything, I think. And why is Oswald hanging around pretending to just be Some Old Dude?
Ah, that makes sense. Still, it seems kind of crazy to rely *entirely* on the Remnants for things like water--especially when you have somewhere like Dillmoor to serve as an example of what could go wrong.
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Date: 2009-10-05 11:32 am (UTC)I guess if your own son is ruthless enough to force you out like that, then he'd probably make sure you won't live for very long or at least won't come back as a threat. So Oswald pretends to be just some old dude to keep himself safe, maybe. It could also be that Wilfred threatened to hurt Marina and her family if Oswald dares to try anything, what with Marina still working in the Academy. (Which brings the question, why is Marina still there, knowing all this... I guess Remnant work is really important to her.) Or, Oswald just enjoys being a normal dude?
Ah well, you know, religion. It makes people do silly things. If they did worship the Remnants like Gods, especially. If something goes wrong they'll just say it was God's wrath and everybody needs to atone... >_>" And after they settled, in the last few hundred years they could have developed more modern system for water storage and delivery, etc. Maybe?
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Date: 2009-10-05 11:39 am (UTC)Hmm, yeah, I guess so--did Hermeien definitely force Oswald out? I missed that part, I think, but it seems entirely in character for him. More power to Oswald for staying low-key but still alive.
And how did Marina not figure out she had Marion's blessing until after Irina was born, if she was so heavily involved in Remnant research that she was sent to the Sacred Lands?
I guess that's possible, though I can't see how any modern systems would help Athlum or Royotia much against the natural disasters. People don't seem to still have that religious view of the Remnants, which is interesting. In fact, there doesn't seem to be much religion, the 'God Emperor' notwithstanding. I wonder if the Imperator deliberately turned the focus of godhood to be his descendents rather than the Remnants themselves?
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Date: 2009-10-05 11:49 am (UTC)He definitely did, I think some NPCs talked about it either in Pub Drachenhauch or elsewhere in Nagapur.
That's the weird part, yeah. And although I know Wagram and Conqueror were really just using Irina to get to Rush, it's still weird that they seemed to not do anything about Marina at all - Marina still had Marion's Blessing, it seemed like, since she could control Namul Niram.
The God Emperor thing confused me as well. During one of the cutscenes when Dave, with Bloctor in tow, went to see Hermeien, the woman there announced that the Valeria Heart and Gae Bolg were bestowed onto Dave by the God Emperor. (I think "bestowed" was the word used, or it could've been "granted".) And initially when the Conqueror bound the Ark, he said he had the God Emperor's blessing and then Hermeien said "well okay you can has a Remnant", as if Remnants could be just handed out like that. So I wonder how much power the GE had over Remnants. Though, what with the current GE's influence decreasing, it could be that the Imperator's power over the Remnants did decrease with each generation of GE. Then the Congress realised this and decided the GE wasn't that important after all...
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Date: 2009-10-05 11:58 am (UTC)Ah--I'm not even to Nagapur on this playthrough yet (hitting up Ghor's sidequests first) but that would make sense.
Maybe Oswald stepped aside on the understanding that nobody would interfere with Marina? Or maybe Marina hid herself just that well. Or maybe we're into weird 'only a pure maiden' territory somehow, since Marina is married--but yeah, she definitely *has* the power.
I can't work out how important the God Emperor actually is at all. Hermeien says a lot of stuff about his influence having waned, but everyone is horrified by the threat of being declared a traitor nevertheless. And Dave has never met the God Emperor before (has he? the impression I get is that he hasn't) but has been granted the Remnants nonetheless.
*flails* Not enough canon information, Squeenix!
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Date: 2009-10-05 12:09 pm (UTC)What if Hermeien said that because *he* controlled the Congress at that point and therefore it was Almighty and Powerful in his eyes, but the rest of the lords still held on a little to the older values? The traitor business is strange. I suppose at that point Duke Ghor, as chairman, could have told everyone to fight the Conqueror, or if he was too unfit then Dave could've done it as acting chairman. Then all the armies would've gone to fight. So with what did the GE threaten the nations with? He must have had some special power that everyone's afraid of. Perhaps the Undelwalt Remnant (whatever those pillars are called) was a scary one... >_>
Dave most likely hadn't met the GE before. I wonder how Dave got the Remnants actually, because once the person bound to a Remnant dies, there should be a Luminescence thing (which probably also happens during binding, seeing what happened at the Ark with the Conqueror). So did Dave just walk up to the Remnants after his dad died and bound them, or maybe he had to wait for word from the God Emperor first? =/
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Date: 2009-10-05 12:22 pm (UTC)Hmm, that's plausible. Hermeien does seem to have a very inflated idea of his own importance. I wonder why everyone was so afraid of the consequences of being declared a traitor--it's the only time people in Athlum don't seem entirely behind Dave's actions and decisions, really. The GE can call a teleporter into being, but we don't see much else in the way of overt displays of power. Hmmmm.
Ugh, horrible horrible vision of Dave finding out his father was dead from the way the Valeria Heart started a cycle of luminescence.
I assume he would have to wait for word from the GE before he could bind the Remnants (though then you end up with a delay and time in which there could be a Collapse, brr). I wonder if that's why neither of the brothers in Baaluk had just taken control by binding the Brimuslabus (since they were fighting, it would otherwise make sense for one to just swipe control that way). If they had to wait for one of them to be granted the Remnant officially, it would explain that.
(Good call on the spoiler warning above, by the way. :P)
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Date: 2009-10-05 01:07 pm (UTC)Poor Dave! ;; That'd be very sad.
That could be. Or maybe they'd both tried but weren't strong enough. XDDDD Because doesn't it take strong people to bind strong Remnants? Like how only one with great power can bind the Ark. So the brothers sit around bickering, probably waiting for the GE to decide on something, maybe hoping the GE can grant one of them power, something like that... >_>
(XD)
Dammit, I wish that other TLR-obsessed girl has an LJ, then I could
drag her hereask her to come join this thread. She might know some things we've missed, what with her massive screencap library and all. XDno subject
Date: 2009-10-05 01:20 pm (UTC)Man, I've depressed myself there. Poor Dave, sadly watching the Valeria Heart flickering.
Hmm, true. I wonder how strong you'd have to be to bind The Conqueror. Or Rush. Or the Seven. The idea of the GE granting them enough power to bind it is interesting--I could see the GE claiming that as why he has to approve the distribution of Remnants.
And then maybe a consequence of being a traitor is the possibility that the GE might *remove* that power needed to keep a Remnant bound?
I'm feeling guilty we didn't have this conversation on
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Date: 2009-10-05 01:25 pm (UTC)I've been wondering about that. And what power would they give? Would binding Rush mean being able to summon something else, like how you can summon the Gae Bolg and Cyclops? XDDD And anyway, what would one have to sacrifice in order to bind Rush?
But then if the GE could do that, the Conqueror wouldn't have had to go through all that trouble to "free all Remnants". =/ Ahhhh I dunno. Maybe he just pretends to have the power to give/take away Remnants.
*snort* There are only one or two people there who seems to like actual game discussion, and of those not all of them have finished playing!
*edits and unlocks post* Hmmm maybe I could link this to the comm... feeling a bit lazy though. XD;
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Date: 2009-10-05 01:37 pm (UTC)Maybe Rush is himself a conjuration? Just a really durable one. Which would make him already bound.. except I can't figure out how that would work, really. Maybe he's bound to himself? And obviously, you'd have to give Rush a new wardrobe to bind him properly. :P
Mrf, yeah, okay. Maybe that doesn't work. Dammit, I thought I might have found a plausible reason for a moment there. So, back to no idea how the Emperor retains any control.
Up to you--it might make for interesting further discussion. Maybe.
(I need to post icon bases to the comm. I have like 60 I made in fits of 'oh, pretty!', and while I *could* upload 'em all to lj for my own use, I absolutely do not need quite that many TLR icons.)
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Date: 2009-10-05 01:46 pm (UTC)Maybe things would make more sense once I beat the Seven on PC and then have them recruited. They must have some explanation on things. Actually... *goes to check wiki* Okay, no info there. =/
Hmmmm maybe when I get home.
(What do you mean, you have no need for many TLR icons? TLR icons is not about need! It's about the pretty! *snicker*)
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Date: 2009-10-06 05:24 am (UTC)Anyway...yeah, have some screencaps. XD They're from my first playthrough, so I wasn't actually going for 100% completion, so I may have missed some stuff, but these are from the general areas you've been talking about?
"handed down by the God Emperor" (capped from a vid I was too lazy to convert, thus the weird black spaces)
http://www.mediafire.com/?1diewrzzuf2
Undelwalt - townsfolk conversation
http://www.mediafire.com/?gzbmvnzmzxu
Undelwalt - conversation beneath
http://www.mediafire.com/?ytmmwkimz3n
Athlum - townsfolk reaction to fighting the Conqueror against the God Emperor's wishes
http://www.mediafire.com/?dhjdyuktngy
And because I was too lazy to cap it (...just go with it), the interview with the present God Emperor, which I...haven't rewatched, so I have no idea how useful it is. Vid is tiny but stretchable, and looks best on GOM player!
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OFS5X3S7
My personal thoughts on the God Emperor is that it's an institution that isn't much different from, say, the Imperial family of China after they also fell out of power, or a typical monarchy today. Actual power has fallen to the wayside as temporal power was divvied out to various other branches of government, until the Congress, which is essentially now doing all the work and making all the decisions, holds the real reins of the state, but the God Emperor still has the tradition of veneration. His Remnant doesn't seem to be a very threatening sort, and at the very least seems to be wearing out, so I don't think it's his own personal power that keeps people in awe of him. It seems more likely that it's the threat of him calling on the other Lords to turn against a dissenter that keeps the others in line.
Oddly enough, RE: the Ark, one of the Academy researchers says that it's "already bound" after the Conqueror does his thing. I think they do this stuff to torment me, honestly. XD
Anyway, as to the GE "handing down" David's Remnants, I sort of took that in a symbolic sense, honestly. Either that David was bureaucratically confirmed in his right to hold them or that "the" God Emperor had bestowed them on the Nassau family or some such thing. Because, y'know, heralds. It's their job to make you sound wonderfully impressive. *laughs*
Aaand I'm very tired now and have to get up at 4AM, so I'll shut up...hope I managed to ramble my way towards what you were wanting? *is very, very sleepy!*
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Date: 2009-10-06 09:20 am (UTC)That does make sense, about the GE. Especially if one looks at it like the map in the game is the whole empire that the GE "rules over", but somewhere along the line the lords made a Congress to look after themselves. But I just wonder... if the people needed their Remnants so much, would a threat from the God Emperor (who probably doesn't really have much physical power) really stop them from trying to protect themselves against the Conqueror? Maybe the lords just weren't sure about where each other stood regarding the whole GE business, each of them thinking that if they made a wrong move all the other lords would hurt him.
Then again, it seems like the first Remnant the Conqueror went to get after the Undelwalt conversation was Remnant Elysion, and Elysion has no lord, so maybe all the other lords didn't want to get involved because it's not their Remnant and it's not worth the risk of being branded a traitor or the risk of losing their lives to the Conqueror earlier than they needed to? But it's just that, well I don't know about the other lords, but Duke Ghor strikes me as someone who wouldn't take this lying down even if it wasn't his city. Particularly after the beating he got at Koenigsdorf! And Qubine as well, he would've done something. Urgh maybe I can assume they were both planning something but David got there first. >_>
Re: handing down Remnants - XDDDD
I wonder about the Harmonium being covered in green stuff and the NPC wondering if that means the GE's bind is coming to an end. Seeing that (unless Marion's Blessing or the Conqueror is involved) the bind between a person and a Remnant shouldn't end unless the person dies, is that hinting that the GE is dying? Or maybe what Haruko said about Remnants reflecting a person's heart... so the NPC got the wrong end of the stick, and it's not the binding coming to an end, but that the Harmonium is reflecting the fact that the GE has become evil?
XD Hope you got some sleep!
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Date: 2009-10-06 11:48 am (UTC)The thing with loyalty and honor is that they aren't always especiallly rational, especially with the desperately honorable type like the three you mention. I would assume that all the Lords have to swear binding oaths to the GE on their ascension, and oath-breaking is A Big Deal, even when the one you've sworn it to has proven himself unworthy of it. There's also the possiblility that they're more loyal to the institution than to the man, which I consider more reasonable, since it's doubtful any of them have ever met the GE before all this mess, and I think it might actually be harder to betray My Emperor than That Asshole Steve. *laughs*
(There's also the possibility that Qubine, at least, with a habit of using Athlum as Celapaleis' well-placed blade, heard that Athlum was already marching and said, "Well, then. Not to worry; Athlum's taking care of it." XD)
The thing with the Conqueror, though...well, people like to lie to themselves. Okay, so he went in and took the Valeria Heart. That's bad! But I think if he'd made a point of hanging around and trying to occupy the city afterwards, or trying to take, say, the Gae Bolg as well, people would have been more likely to be all "OMG, he's collecting towns/Remnants! To arms, to arms!" As it is, they (and by "they" I mostly mean the other three, not the desperately honorable three) can tell themselves it's just Athlum's bad luck. Hey, the Conqueror was promised a Remnant, right? And after all, he's marched his troops on Elysion before and nothing bad happened--that is, sure he bound the Ark, but then he gave it back! Really, this will aaaaall blow over...sure it will...all this talk of conquering the world? yeah, that's just an excitable few getting their knickers in a twist.... *laughs*
Aaaand now I've got to run...heh...babbling about TLR is so much more entertaining than what I've got to look forward to today!
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Date: 2009-10-06 12:46 pm (UTC)I always think (maybe I fantasise) that Qubine is fond of Dave, and Celapaleis holds on to Athlum partly for its own benefits and partly because Qubine feels that Athlum is Not Ready Yet. With what happened at the Bases, though, Qubine decides that David is ready to take on Athlum on his own ("making your own decisions is hardly an easy task") and because Ghor put in a good word for Athlum too... um I'm going off on a tangent, oops! XD I just always think Qubine is so overlooked by the very small fandom that we have.
Maybe it's easy for them to go la la la *fingers in ears*. As long as it's not their own core Remnant being taken, it's easier to ignore what's happening. Which is pretty sad, but does reflect human nature.
*snicker* Work. Always so stimulating!
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Date: 2009-10-06 05:59 am (UTC)I don't seem to have screenshotted the stuff about the war between Celepalais and Ghor--I'll go poke around NPCs later.
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Date: 2009-10-06 07:25 am (UTC)