Did I just do that?

[pez]

Oh, I appear to have signed up to a writing thing. Not due for five months, though. Gives me plenty of time to write, rewrite and rerewrite.

[deleted paragraph] Since the comments are pretty interesting I'm going to unlock this entry and I don't want what was here to be public. XD

[edit] Massive huge spoilers for TLR in the comments, don't read if you don't want to be spoiled. (I guess that's just vanillafire on my friends list right now. XD)

Comments

[storme]

Actually, one thing about this last TLR playthrough is that I'm noticing just how *fascinating* some of the NPC stuff is--in terms of hints of backstory and so on, I mean. It's making me go 'man, I want to read a fic about that' a lot.

I think this is why I'm so hooked on TLR, really--the world feels far, far huger and deeper than the parts Rush gets to see.

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

That's very true. It's not easy to write for, though, given that what we get are mere glimpses.

Sometimes I try to imagine how Athlum - and how David - handles things without Valeria Heart. Dave can do a lot of things, but stopping earthquakes is not one of them.

[storme]

The whole Ghor-Qubine-Hermeien-Oswald thread is making me wish there was more canon, yeah. Sigh.

What about Balterossa without water? And Royotia with a big explodey volcano ready to blow up?

(I've been screenshotting any explanations of what the various Great Remnants do this time around, because man, that's going to be a *messed-up* world to live in after the end of the game.)

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

Ghor and Qubine are so *cute*. I can't even explain why I think that, because up until one point Qubine obviously does really think Ghor is a serious threat (sending Dave to Blackdale to see if Ghor is up to something). Then there's the "don't tell Ghor I'm sickkkk", and then later they worked together and Ghor talked Qubine into letting Athlum go and they decided together Dave is Da Man. >_> Maybe there's UST between those two.

I wonder why Rush didn't know Oswald before. Maybe Marina and Oswald didn't want him to know about the involvement with the Academy, but it isn't like the rest of the world doesn't think Oswald's just some random old man...

Civilisations are built around Remnants... I suppose that probably means there will be huge scale migrations once they realise their situations aren't sustainable. ;_; Either that or they'll have to find the Remnants again. >D

[storme]

Well, they were actually officially at war previously (at least, Celepalais and Ghor as countries were), and Dave clearly doesn't think Ghor is Good People for a while (he thinks Wagram is working with Ghor, if you remember). But yeah, I think they are adorable once they stop bickering.

Oswald used to be Nagapur's lord, according to one NPC. But the Hermeiens have ruled Nagapur for generations, according to another. Is Oswald one of the Hermeien family? It adds a whole new level of crazy to things.

I sort of wonder why people settled where they did, frankly--I mean, okay, Royotia because of the mining, maybe. It's hard to explain with Athlum, though. Maybe they settled where they found the Remnants?

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

They were at war? Didn't realise. XD;;;;; But I think Dave thought Wagram was working for Ghor because Qubine told Dave to check out what's happening in Blackdale, and Qubine thought it was Ghor up to something. So perhaps when Dave saw Wagram there he automatically assumed Wagram worked for Ghor since that's what Qubine made him think.

*headtilt* As far as I could piece together from the game, Oswald is Wilfred Hermeien's dad. That makes Marina and Wilfred brothers and sisters, although obviously Marina was adopted.

They settled around Remnants. I think it's the North American official site that says that, during the loading screens. Probably like Wagram said, long ago people used to worship Remnants, so settling around them wouldn't be a strange thing to do.

[storme]

Yeah--that's the war that Emma's *father* died during, though, so I guess it might not have been particularly recent.

So Hermeien is (Rush and) Irina's uncle? Whole new overtones of creepy to everything, I think. And why is Oswald hanging around pretending to just be Some Old Dude?

Ah, that makes sense. Still, it seems kind of crazy to rely *entirely* on the Remnants for things like water--especially when you have somewhere like Dillmoor to serve as an example of what could go wrong.

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

Oh God, I totally missed that detail! Guess I need to play the game again from the beginning. XD;;;

I guess if your own son is ruthless enough to force you out like that, then he'd probably make sure you won't live for very long or at least won't come back as a threat. So Oswald pretends to be just some old dude to keep himself safe, maybe. It could also be that Wilfred threatened to hurt Marina and her family if Oswald dares to try anything, what with Marina still working in the Academy. (Which brings the question, why is Marina still there, knowing all this... I guess Remnant work is really important to her.) Or, Oswald just enjoys being a normal dude?

Ah well, you know, religion. It makes people do silly things. If they did worship the Remnants like Gods, especially. If something goes wrong they'll just say it was God's wrath and everybody needs to atone... >_>" And after they settled, in the last few hundred years they could have developed more modern system for water storage and delivery, etc. Maybe?

[storme]

That's all you need, an excuse to play TLR all over again. :P

Hmm, yeah, I guess so--did Hermeien definitely force Oswald out? I missed that part, I think, but it seems entirely in character for him. More power to Oswald for staying low-key but still alive.

And how did Marina not figure out she had Marion's blessing until after Irina was born, if she was so heavily involved in Remnant research that she was sent to the Sacred Lands?

I guess that's possible, though I can't see how any modern systems would help Athlum or Royotia much against the natural disasters. People don't seem to still have that religious view of the Remnants, which is interesting. In fact, there doesn't seem to be much religion, the 'God Emperor' notwithstanding. I wonder if the Imperator deliberately turned the focus of godhood to be his descendents rather than the Remnants themselves?

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

XDD Which NPC should I speak to for the thing about Emma's dad?

He definitely did, I think some NPCs talked about it either in Pub Drachenhauch or elsewhere in Nagapur.

That's the weird part, yeah. And although I know Wagram and Conqueror were really just using Irina to get to Rush, it's still weird that they seemed to not do anything about Marina at all - Marina still had Marion's Blessing, it seemed like, since she could control Namul Niram.

The God Emperor thing confused me as well. During one of the cutscenes when Dave, with Bloctor in tow, went to see Hermeien, the woman there announced that the Valeria Heart and Gae Bolg were bestowed onto Dave by the God Emperor. (I think "bestowed" was the word used, or it could've been "granted".) And initially when the Conqueror bound the Ark, he said he had the God Emperor's blessing and then Hermeien said "well okay you can has a Remnant", as if Remnants could be just handed out like that. So I wonder how much power the GE had over Remnants. Though, what with the current GE's influence decreasing, it could be that the Imperator's power over the Remnants did decrease with each generation of GE. Then the Congress realised this and decided the GE wasn't that important after all...

[storme]

I think Emma says it, in the Numor Mines sidequest (and then someone in Athlum somewhere says the war was with Ghor). I'll dig up the screencap when I get home and check, though.

Ah--I'm not even to Nagapur on this playthrough yet (hitting up Ghor's sidequests first) but that would make sense.

Maybe Oswald stepped aside on the understanding that nobody would interfere with Marina? Or maybe Marina hid herself just that well. Or maybe we're into weird 'only a pure maiden' territory somehow, since Marina is married--but yeah, she definitely *has* the power.

I can't work out how important the God Emperor actually is at all. Hermeien says a lot of stuff about his influence having waned, but everyone is horrified by the threat of being declared a traitor nevertheless. And Dave has never met the God Emperor before (has he? the impression I get is that he hasn't) but has been granted the Remnants nonetheless.

*flails* Not enough canon information, Squeenix!

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

Please do~. Ah this is really bothering me now. Must know! XD

What if Hermeien said that because *he* controlled the Congress at that point and therefore it was Almighty and Powerful in his eyes, but the rest of the lords still held on a little to the older values? The traitor business is strange. I suppose at that point Duke Ghor, as chairman, could have told everyone to fight the Conqueror, or if he was too unfit then Dave could've done it as acting chairman. Then all the armies would've gone to fight. So with what did the GE threaten the nations with? He must have had some special power that everyone's afraid of. Perhaps the Undelwalt Remnant (whatever those pillars are called) was a scary one... >_>

Dave most likely hadn't met the GE before. I wonder how Dave got the Remnants actually, because once the person bound to a Remnant dies, there should be a Luminescence thing (which probably also happens during binding, seeing what happened at the Ark with the Conqueror). So did Dave just walk up to the Remnants after his dad died and bound them, or maybe he had to wait for word from the God Emperor first? =/

[storme]

(nod nod) I will do. :)

Hmm, that's plausible. Hermeien does seem to have a very inflated idea of his own importance. I wonder why everyone was so afraid of the consequences of being declared a traitor--it's the only time people in Athlum don't seem entirely behind Dave's actions and decisions, really. The GE can call a teleporter into being, but we don't see much else in the way of overt displays of power. Hmmmm.

Ugh, horrible horrible vision of Dave finding out his father was dead from the way the Valeria Heart started a cycle of luminescence.

I assume he would have to wait for word from the GE before he could bind the Remnants (though then you end up with a delay and time in which there could be a Collapse, brr). I wonder if that's why neither of the brothers in Baaluk had just taken control by binding the Brimuslabus (since they were fighting, it would otherwise make sense for one to just swipe control that way). If they had to wait for one of them to be granted the Remnant officially, it would explain that.

(Good call on the spoiler warning above, by the way. :P)

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

I'm starting to get the impression that the GE has a bit of power, but not as much as people think. Maybe he just makes himself look all important, and some people are starting to see that the current GE actually isn't as almighty as he says, but some other people aren't so sure. And because the GE knows a lot of things other people don't, they feel forced to listen to him...?

Poor Dave! ;; That'd be very sad.

That could be. Or maybe they'd both tried but weren't strong enough. XDDDD Because doesn't it take strong people to bind strong Remnants? Like how only one with great power can bind the Ark. So the brothers sit around bickering, probably waiting for the GE to decide on something, maybe hoping the GE can grant one of them power, something like that... >_>

(XD)

Dammit, I wish that other TLR-obsessed girl has an LJ, then I could drag her here ask her to come join this thread. She might know some things we've missed, what with her massive screencap library and all. XD

[storme]

Yeah, that sounds about right. A decaying empire, with power being leeched away by the Congress-as-ruled-by-Hermeien.

Man, I've depressed myself there. Poor Dave, sadly watching the Valeria Heart flickering.

Hmm, true. I wonder how strong you'd have to be to bind The Conqueror. Or Rush. Or the Seven. The idea of the GE granting them enough power to bind it is interesting--I could see the GE claiming that as why he has to approve the distribution of Remnants.

And then maybe a consequence of being a traitor is the possibility that the GE might *remove* that power needed to keep a Remnant bound?

I'm feeling guilty we didn't have this conversation on balterossa, actually. All this discussion and no yaoi, even. :P

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

Dave, once again, is so perfect for angst. ;;

I've been wondering about that. And what power would they give? Would binding Rush mean being able to summon something else, like how you can summon the Gae Bolg and Cyclops? XDDD And anyway, what would one have to sacrifice in order to bind Rush?

But then if the GE could do that, the Conqueror wouldn't have had to go through all that trouble to "free all Remnants". =/ Ahhhh I dunno. Maybe he just pretends to have the power to give/take away Remnants.

*snort* There are only one or two people there who seems to like actual game discussion, and of those not all of them have finished playing!

*edits and unlocks post* Hmmm maybe I could link this to the comm... feeling a bit lazy though. XD;

[storme]

And such poetic angst, too.

Maybe Rush is himself a conjuration? Just a really durable one. Which would make him already bound.. except I can't figure out how that would work, really. Maybe he's bound to himself? And obviously, you'd have to give Rush a new wardrobe to bind him properly. :P

Mrf, yeah, okay. Maybe that doesn't work. Dammit, I thought I might have found a plausible reason for a moment there. So, back to no idea how the Emperor retains any control.

Up to you--it might make for interesting further discussion. Maybe.

(I need to post icon bases to the comm. I have like 60 I made in fits of 'oh, pretty!', and while I *could* upload 'em all to lj for my own use, I absolutely do not need quite that many TLR icons.)

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

'Mr David! What are you doing to Rush?!? That's not how you're meant to bind a Remnant!'? XDDDD

Maybe things would make more sense once I beat the Seven on PC and then have them recruited. They must have some explanation on things. Actually... *goes to check wiki* Okay, no info there. =/

Hmmmm maybe when I get home.

(What do you mean, you have no need for many TLR icons? TLR icons is not about need! It's about the pretty! *snicker*)

[storme]

*snort* See, like the bible slashfic joke, I really am not safe to be let near puns. :P

Yeah, I'm curious about the Seven. I was never entirely sure if they were supposed to be Remnants or just fanatics in the service of the Conqueror. And, likely, haven't gotten that far in the PC playthrough yet.

(I have the need for pretty TLR icons, but do I need *twenty* Dave icons? Really? And as many of Rush? I need to share the pretty out a bit.)

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

And then, of course, there's the mystery of Rush. So many ways to explain it, because they never told us what Remnants really are. Rush could be a Remnant or he could be hosting a Remnant inside him after that little accident at the Sacred Lands.

.......which reminds me - Beneath Undelwalt. It's like the Sacred Lands, but I bet not many people know it exists! Maybe that's where the GE's power comes from, if he has any?

And could it be that Rush is a conjuration of the Sacred Lands/the Remnant Elysion, and Conqueror is the conjuration of Beneath Undelwalt (so secret that it doesn't even have a name?) It does *seem* like a Remnant needs to be bound for the conjuration to be called out, but are we sure......?

(Oh, share the pretty, of course! But it makes Dave sad when you say you don't need him. Or you don't need twenty copies of him. And you know the dangers involved with Dave's sadface.)

(I was going to say that I'll put aside the sewing the play the game tonight, but I know once I start I won't stop, and then all my cosplay plans will be in jeopardy. T_T)

[storme]

He certainly seems to *think* he's a Remnant. But right, he could just be hosting one. Or fused with one a la Nora.

Yeah, maybe--we know the Sacred Lands reached by the Seventh Path Remnant Ark are the same as the Elysion Remnant Ark (or connected, since Dave and the Generals re-emerge from there at the end of the game). But the ones beneath Undelwalt don't seem to be the same place, precisely--I wonder if it manifests as an actual Remnant, but underground?

Hmm! That makes sense, them being conjurations of the specific places. There's nothing definite that I recall about them *having* to be bound for conjurations, though that feels like it should be right. I wonder--when the Gae Bolg and Cyclops fight against the party, what's their status in terms of binding/control?

(I will, I will. I may cherry-pick the best Torgal one first, though, since I lack a Torgal picture of my own. And I have many many pictures of Dave's pretty that are *larger* than icons. But filling all my lj usericon slots with versions of Dave would be too much concentrated pretty for any one place. No, not the sadface! I can't resist the sadface!)

(This is essentially my problem, and why I *still* haven't started on the sewing. Um. Too many distractions!)

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

Perhaps it makes no difference to him, whether he is one or is hosting one that has the ultimate power. Because in the end it comes down to the same choice. :(

Elysion and Beneath Undelwalt is almost like.... Heaven and Hell? (Floating above and buried below.) Though they appear to be essentially the same thing. I suppose Elysion is named as such because the people thought that's the final resting place for souls. And the city under the floating Remnant was named after it, and then the Remnant became known as Sacred Lands. Comparing this with Undelwalt... that's almost obviously made to sound like Underworld. >_> There is definitely a connection between Undelwalt and the place beneath it. There's some parallel there that my words are failing to explain (it's Monday! I don't function on Mondays) but you know what I mean. So I'll guess Beneath Undelwalt is a Remnant. And GE has the power to create a teleporter that takes people in/out of that Remnant as he pleases, which is different from trying to get to Sacred Lands. I suppose that might mean he's bound Beneath Undelwalt to himself?

No idea at all about Gae Bolg and Cyclops... I mean, Dave definitely still had the eyepatch, because when Cyclops/Gae Bolg were defeated the light went back inside his eyepatch. So I'd guess the binding's still there. But he most definitely lost control of it...

(I need more variety of characters, myself. I want one or two Irina ones, actually. And some of Pagus's friends. XD Need more funny ones.)

(You need to start! Now! When your boyfriend isn't home to grumble at you for using the music room!)

[storme]

Which wasn't a choice at all, in the end. Poor Rush. :(

Yes, I see the parallel. And it would make sense for the God Emperor to bind BU to himself, yes. But there appears to be no Lord in Elysion (which is *pronounced* to sound like 'illusion', as another commentary of sorts on the concept)--and we know that the Remnant Elysion (as opposed to the Ark) was bound by Marion Marshall way back when (thus aligning her with Heaven vs the Imperator's Hell? Hmmmmmmm). Is it unbound now? Or is it bound by the Academy somehow?

Maybe the Conqueror took control of the Gae Bolg and Cyclops (either just those conjurations, or Kellendros and the Talisman's method for producing them) temporarily? I don't know, I can't figure out the mechanics of that battle at all (though it is very cool).

(I took a bunch of screenshots of Pagus's sidequest just yesterday, lots of Maddox and Sibal--want me to punt them to you when I get home?)

(But! Shiny game to distract me! Besides which, first I need to stare at the pattern I bought that tells me how the hell one makes a mandarin collar, anyway. :P)

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

*nodnodnod*

Stone no.24 - The Academy doesn't have the power to use Sacred Lands - yet. They seem to be able to get the Ark to operate for them every few months, and I'd guess since they can't even control the Ark properly, they most likely don't have control of Remnant Elysion. But, stone no.14... guess that implies that during luminesence a person might be able to Use a Remnant without binding it. At least that's the case for the Ark?

So what happened back then? Wagram dumped Glenys to woo Marion Marshall, and because after that he gained control of lots of Remnants I suppose Marion actually helped him. And then Marion actually made Tao Tie walk away, so that Kingdom of Glenys lost the war to Undelwalt. =/ (I guess love is blind) Maybe some time after that she realised Wagram's an asshole and so she bound herself to Elysion to stablise things?

(Yanno, I never took the time to read all the Academy Visistones. Big mistake! Interesting stuff there. Stone no.47 is particularly interesting.)

(I've got lots of them too, actually, just being a bit lazy about iconing. XD)

(Well if you run out of time making the costume, my Dave will be sad.)

[storme]

(Wow, those *are* interesting. Remnants can only be bound during luminescence? And Marshalls are not necessarily mitras? And.. wow, the Fallen as an early Rush/Conqueror type?)

Hmm. So Elysion isn't bound at all, I guess. And neither is the Ark, mostly. Amazing there's been no Collapse from the Ark...

And, yeah, the reading I got was that Wagram wooed Marion Marshall purely for her powers (though fairly convincingly, I assume) and then after that she bound Elysion--maybe on his prompting, since it's the original Remnant?

(I lack inspiration for text for icons, alas. My icons are pretty but not very funny. :( )

(I'm not quite that bad at procrastination! It'll be done in time. Though there may be some panic later on. :P)