even with the risk of sounding elitist, I have to get this off my chest

[pez]

My god. I wonder what's wrong with people these days. It seems like as long as a fic has a high word count it automatically means it's awesome. I just read a long piece of crap that could've been written by five different people and then meshed together into one fic and apparently it's supposed to be amazing. Or so the comments say.

And I do mean it when I say it's crap. You know I don't publically bash fics often, because I think it's usually a matter of taste. But this one, it's got characterisation inconsistencies, more than a handful of typos, skippy passages (which aren't stylish or clever), unexplained character traits that are really important... the whole lot.

But take santa_smex for example. I haven't read a lot of it yet, but almost every fic that's too long for LJ and therefore has to get a webpage? Gets lots of comments. Not saying that long = crap (I love a good, long story), but do people feel obliged to say nice things even when it's crap because it's long and therefore the author must have made huge effort? Or does longness drown minds out and make them not see that something sucks? I can verbal diahoerra, too, you know. Would fandom bow at my feet for it?

The sad thing is, a lot of those who commented positively are people who leave feedback to me, too. Some are even from my own flist. So probably the standards of my own writing are just about the same. Well, shit.

Shit, I'm supposed to be asleep since an hour ago. Maybe that's why I'm bitching. Haven't been having a very good night (thanks, Hana, for talking to me). Now I have 4 hours to sleep before work.

Comments

[eames.livejournal.com]

Thinking about this more, (sorry, I'm totally spamming you XD) if you're using smex as an example, I'm honestly not sure where you're coming from.

The first fic in the contest, for example, got a ton of comments because it was fantastic, but there are long fics that didn't, some that were good, some that were bad.

There are also short fics that were equally good and got nowhere near enough comments, and short fics that were, well... crap, and only got a few comments, too. I'm not sure I'm seeing a corrolation between length and quality, or amount of comments, personally. :/

But thinking about my own repsonse, I read on pairings, not on length, and if a fic was really long and not very good, I certainly wouldn't feel obliged to comment because of the length. Quantity doesn't equal quality, no matter how you slice it, IMO, and I'm not sure that smex was any more guilty of any other fics in general of a comment ratio that was skewed.

I suppose it's all down to perspective, really, but I really don't think the long fics on smex (at least the ones I've read) were commented on out of obligation because of the length. I read one long one, didn't like it, and didn't comment just because the person had maxed out a page or two.

Maybe not everyone does this, but if I don't like a long fic, I just hit back and don't comment. I honestly think people are lazy, and they'll only comment if they like something. I'm not sure I'm seeing the long fic = automatically awesome thing in smex, personally. Possibly because most of the long fics WERE good, I thought. :/

ETA: Oh, and also, from my POV, a lot of fics were Rikkai-based this year, it felt like. And short or long, I really don't like Rikkai, so the chances of me reading them are low, because I feel like I could leave a random 'that was cool' comment, but I always feel like I should say more, and since I would know zero about characterisation, etc, I wouldn't want to leave an uninformed comment.

Shutting up now. XD

(Also, when the reveals go up, if the person isn't on your f-list, you should totally make an entry and tell us which you're taling about. XD)

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

Because I can't sleep, I went and did a tally of the number of comments. Classifying "long" as "too long for LJ and therefore got a webpage" and everything else as short...

Long (12 fics)
36
45
14
20
25
31
31
34
30
31
11
4
Average: 26 comments per fic


Short (23 fics)
9
7
11
4
32
17
7
14
6
26
10
18
12
8
21
5
10
10
14
5
19
4
9
Average: 12 comments per fic

I think there is a correlation there.

Even allowing long fics where the recipient may ramble on in multiple comments, it still can't account for a long fic getting over twice the no. of comments compared with a short fic, on average.

I'm not saying quantity equals quality, but how people respond to quantity in a fest.

[eames.livejournal.com]

Hmm, to me, personally, it's that a lot of the shorter fics were shit. I hate to say it, but they were. There were some really awful ones there, and a lot of the longer ones (IMHO) were actually really good. I haven't read them all yet, so I will hold my hands up to a partially uninformed perspective, but I am certainly going to go back and look at said 12 long fics, because I really am wondering which you're talking about.

To me, although this is all down to perspective again, 'good' authors, whatever that means, tend to try and write something satisfying for their recipient, and that usually ends up being something that's explored in depth. People who don't like their prompt, (because I think we can't forget that some people might have tried really hard to write a long piece for a pairing they hate, which I think would show in the work) or think they're better than they are, might knock off a 5,000 word piece, and think it's great.

I don't think that length or brevity automatically makes a fic good, as I can think of one particular one that was on the website that (at certain parts) made me cringe with some of the language in it. Again, it's down to perspective, I suppose, what people like and what they don't. And there's not much anyone can do about people liking crap (if indeed this one is) fic.

If it ends up that you're talking about my fic after all of this, I'll totally slap you. XD

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

I've only read about 1/3-1/2 of the fics myself so far, as well, so.

You do have a good point there, that the longer ones are possibly generally better because of the effort spent on it. Perhaps I just had a bad experience with one of the very few long ones. =/

No, it can't possibly be yours. XD It's Rikkai!

Still. Urgh. Why did that one get so many comments. Argh. You know the feeling when you see familiar names who like your stuff go and gush about a story you think is rubbish? URGH.

[eames.livejournal.com]

I do think, because SS isn't publicised a huge amount, that a lot of the quality writers, or at least people who have a half working brain and the ability not to make a story shit, are attracted to it. And therefore, by default, the same people who care enough to look out for quality in what they read, make an effort to produce it, and respond to it when they see it. And because they make an effort to produce it, their fics are usually long and good.

I agree there's a corrolation between length and comments, but I can't help but wonder (at least for 80% of the long fics) if smex isn't the best example to use as a sample of data, because a lot of the long fics genuinely ARE good. I'm not sure that one or two badfics with a high wordcount and lots of comments makes a pattern, but that's just me. You've done the maths, and I can't be bothered to, because I'm a literature geek and not a science one, so I shall leave you to your data. XD

I had a feeling it would be a Rikkai one. You tend not to get up in arms about something else. XD Now I am verrrry curious. I am going to put aside my Rikkai-indifference to go and read some, I think, because I get pissed when people don't read my because they don't like Hyotei (*cough*totalbighint*cough*) and I think I should probably try and extend people the same courtesy, otherwise it makes me more than a bit of a hypocrite.

As for the comments this, hahaha, yes. Someone I respect as a reasonable writer commented on one that actually made me go D: with badness. Possibly, however, people are just being nice, as I believe it's in a lot of people to comment with encouragment if they feel bad someone hasn't got enough comments. I don't do that, but I can understand it.

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

Will have to wait till I have the time to read all the fics posted. ^^" But hopefully yeah, the other long ones are good.

Would be bad though, when you come across the one I just read and think "this is so crap, and is totally why I don't read Rikkai!" XD

They aren't just being nice. They are leaving long comments saying why they think it's phenomenol! Man, I really want to leave comment to the fic saying how I feel, but it doesn't feel like the right thing to do when it's a gift fic for someone else. I don't go around criticising someone's gift for another person.

[eames.livejournal.com]

I've actually narrowed it down to three fics, based on the specifications you posted, being Rikkai and of website length, and I don't think it's one of them, the other one 'seems' good, so I suspect I know which one it is, but I bet I'm wrong. XD

I don't go around criticising someone's gift for another person.

Except like you're doing now? XD *kidding*

No, I get you. I really wouldn't comment on something I hated, because there's several of the fics I would actually be asking what they were on when they wrote it. I think I'll have an informed, filtered bitch about a few things when the reveals go up. :D

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

(Yeah, I probably will tell you if the author isn't on my flist. XD)