WK fandom vs PoT fandom

[pez]

Was just saying something about the PoT fandom on a LJ comment, and it sort of made me think.

Why do I like PoT fandom more than WK fandom? (just the fandom... not comparing the actual anime or manga)

WK fans are like, "hey look I bought a doujinshi and here's a scan of the cover!"
PoT fans are "hey I bought a doujinshi, here's the whole thing scanned, numbered and zipped, (sometimes translated too), download away!"

WK fans are like, "can someone tell me this, this and this, and can someone send me this song?" (and they don't say please)
PoT fans: "Yo I got the new single CD, I've scanned the booklet if someone wants to translate (please??) and here are the MP3s! Actually I've put all the albums I have on the website, which is here.... (insert address)"

WK fans hardly ever bother to give feedback on fics or fanart anymore. Try posting something to WKFF or WKML or FF.NET and you'll see what I mean.
PoT fans actually give constructive feedback!

And oh I've seen Wk fans screaming "Argh Youji must be (straight/gay - delete as appropriate), how can you write (yaoi/het) about him!! Kill you!!!"
PoT fans can write FujiTaka or ZukaSakuno or RyomaSakuno or HorioSakuno and nobody screams at them (at least I haven't seen it so far).

Yeah, it's the fans that make the difference.

And the amount of pretty boys in PoT, all with very individual characters, available for all sorts of combinations and permutations... and the anime occasionally do fanservice *snickers*

Of course I still love WK. I still love AyaYouji and BradSchu. XD But the fans really, really put me off contributing anything to the fandom anymore, since my effort seems to be unappreciated. *sigh*

Comments

[mirichan.livejournal.com]

I think the "non-feedback" syndrome is everywhere, not just WK (I should know... I'm on different fandoms at the same time and it's the same (mostly) in YnM and GW these days)...

POT fans might be a lot more numerous since it's a more recent fandom... give it a few more years and watch it do the exact same thing...

I was big-time in GW at first... go check the amount of feedback anymore... When I joined over 3 years ago, it was still very active... people gravitated towards newer stuff and the ones who replaced them are not very polite...

As for sharing? Sorry but not sharing is a lot more the rule than sharing... There were THOUSANDS of GW djs... I've probably seen less than 5 all zipped into one nice package... and even less MP3s...

In WK? Well, you are one who shared a lot (thank you again for those CD-dramas tracks... believe me, I even shared them with a friend recently) but not many did/does, I agree with you there... at least not on the few WK lists I've been on. And saying THANK YOU or PLEASE? Sorry, but on what planet do you live? ^_~

I have this ML where I share Haru wo Daite ita scanlations AND the CD-drama tracks... took me a long time to find them all through IRC and here I am, creating nice packages and sharing with my members... Want to take a guess at how many times I've been THANKED for the efforts? You won't need more than ONE hand for that!

BTW... You have a typo in your last line because otherwise you make no sense ^_~... it's UNappreciated

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

*corrects typo* ^^" Thanks.

I'm one of the first few in the WK fandom... and even back then people didn't share. Perhaps except Jey, Sumire, KaiLing and a few others. But even then people didn't really thank them... all they did was steal their pictures and bandwidth. And they didn't like giving much feedback from the start... the fandom was really active, they RP and discuss things, but they just don't want to contribute anything *sigh*

I still don't know why nobody ever scan doujinshis! I'm like, 1 month into PoT fandom? I've got 18 doujinshis in my harddrive, and about 30 others I didn't download simply because I don't read those pairings. And I've got 1.6GB worth of PoT MP3's now. Most are sent to me by Pyrochan, but people are passing them around the net as well. It makes me think what on earth is wrong with the WK fans...

When I first entered the PoT fandom I did a doujinshi translation... people didn't just take, they actually said thank you. I was so stunned... apparently there's a place in this universe where people are courteous! XD The place actually feels healthy XD

I still love WK. I just wish the fans are nicer. Guess we'll just have to accept the fandom as it is now... it's like not many will ever thank me for hosting translations or the occasional MP3s, and no one will thank you for what you've done for Haru wo Daite ita. *sigh* If the websites didn't take me so long to build, I would've ripped it down just because nobody shows any appreciation. -_-

[genkischuldich.livejournal.com]

But doujinshi are a special case... You might remember when I put one up in my LJ and was eventually told not to? People don't like them because in some people's eyes you're stealing from the original circle. And the rest of us fear such hostility... I don't know why the PoT fandom is different, if it is. I wouldn't know, I haven't been there. I would say however, that it's far bigger than WK ever was... and, well, things are still new in that fandom.
I'm not sure about the problem with mp3s though - I've had plenty of Weiß Kreuz ones, and they aren't difficult to find.

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

Really, really don't understand the fuss about doujinshis. People need to understand that doujinka draw things to satisfy themselves. They want people to read what they've done, and they aren't trying to make money out of it, just the same way we write fanfics. For fans that never get the opportunity to buy doujinshi even if they have the money, downloading it is the only way to show they enjoy what the doujinka has done.

*L* I still get plenty of emails asking me for WK mp3. I wonder if theses people actually bothered to look around, or if they're just sticking their palms towards me and expect to be given things.

[mirichan.livejournal.com]

*L* I still get plenty of emails asking me for WK mp3. I wonder if theses people actually bothered to look around, or if they're just sticking their palms towards me and expect to be given things.

Of course... it's easier ^_^

Will have to take a look at your site soon... I'm still missing some CD-dramas... maybe you have them.

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

I haven't got the dramas up now (got a bit fed up and took them down), but just tell me which ones you want, I can zip them up for you to download. :)

[mirichan.livejournal.com]

Ok... ^_~

According to my list, I have (from you, except for Gluhen - Fight fire with fire, which I traded with a friend [who got a copy of the ones you had sent me]):

1- Crashers
2- Dramatic Collection 1-3
3- Dramatic Album 1, 3-4 ---- MISSING: #2
4- Dramatic Precious 2-3 ---- MISSING: #1,4
5- Gluhen Fight Fire with Fire
6- Wish a Dream Collection 1 ---- MISSING: #2-4
7- MISSING: Gluhen - Theater of Pain

If you have any of those, I'd be extremely glad!

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

*L* You've got everything I have. I once had all the DP CDs, but I didn't rip them because they were brand new and sealed, and I sold them on eBay. ^^"

But I'll let you know if I manage to find the other ones ^^

[mirichan.livejournal.com]

^_^

K... thanks!

[genkischuldich.livejournal.com]

I have some of those - but you know what my connection is like! I haven't stayed connected for more than ten minutes today! Tell me which one you want, and I'll try to upload the tracks one by one.
Alternatively, I could just mp3 them and burn them onto a CD if you can trust me with your address (Same goes to Yuki_Scorpio, btw).

I have - Theatre of Pain, WaD 2-3 and ...er... one of the other CD dramas, but I've no idea which one it is. I THINK it's Dramatic Precious #1 though. All of these will take some finding... Do you have the Glühen Dramatic soundtracks (and want them?)? I have those too, and they have some short scenes too, although mostly BGM.

[mirichan.livejournal.com]

I'm not afraid of sharing my address ^_~

But I'm in Canada... shipping the CD would be costly ^_~... I'd rather be slow and if you want to upload track by track, I'd be very happy and obliged (and I had a CD sent from Quebec to RI (USA) once get broken in 2 so I'm not crazy about snailmail).

And I'd love the soundtracks too... don't have them either...

I have cable modem here so I don't have connection problems anymore...

[genkischuldich.livejournal.com]

I know where you are! :) It really is that difficult to upload stuff on my connection, that's all.

Which one do you want to start with? I'll start ripping immediately and post in my LJ when it's uploaded, but I can't guarantee that'll be tonight.

[mirichan.livejournal.com]

Do as you want...

I'm not difficult ^_^ I'll just be very glad of getting what you can share!

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the offer ^^ I'll do without them, since I can't understand much anyway *sigh* Will just go find translations. :)

[mirichan.livejournal.com]

Actually, if you were to take them down, is when you would hear people holler...

People are busy and everything is their rights. It's annoying but I'm not doing my Haru ML for them but for me to share with some who might appreciate the stuff...

Too bad good manners have died in some people (if they ever had them, for starter).

As for doujinshi trading, read Semishade's reply and mine... I think WK falls in that same boat; while POT is a newer fandom coming into existence at a time when the anime itself is available for free at a click of a mouse... different rules...

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

Actually, if you were to take them down, is when you would hear people holler...

*is very tempted to just give that a try*

Still not so sure about doujinshi, since even if people didn't share the rest of us probably can't get our hands on them anyway (limited printing, only in Japan, etc). So we aren't really doing much harm to the doujinka. In fact after downloading some doujinshi from 2 specific circles, I went off and bought a whole lot of their work through a deputy service. ^^"

[ex-semishade366.livejournal.com]

Must admit, I have mixed feelings on sharing doujinshi. I'll quite happily post artbook scans etc (when I get round to scanning them that is) but I have this vague worry that the artists themselves wouldn't appreciate me scanning the whole book. Same with doujinshi.

xs

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

With artbook I share your feelings (which is why I don't scan my artbooks, apart from the fact that I don't wanna pull them apart). With doujinshis I'm not so sure, because the doujinshi artists don't make a living out of their hobbies. It's more like they want to publish something they enjoy and let other people appreciate it too. With fans overseas, it's really difficult tp buy the doujinshi even if they have the money...

Another thing with PoT is, they recently published a new artbook. The US fans actually all came together and ordered one big shipment of the artbook from amazonJP. So they're willing to pay for it, even though some people will scan it eventually. I haven't seen any WK fans do anything like that, even when the Verbrechen&Strafe artbook came out. They just sit around and ask for scans -_-" I guess Jey was too nice to scan everything since the beginning, so the fans got spoiled *L*

[ex-semishade366.livejournal.com]

apart from the fact that I don't wanna pull them apart

Yes, there is that too. Some of those books are so beautifully presented, and it's pretty clear when some gorgeous painting is spread across two bound pages that it's not intended for scanning!

I think it's probably safe to say there's a genuine difference of opinion on doujinshi. I've had people comment to me that it's wrong to scan them. Although I doubt this is the real issue behind lack of sharing in WK. Personally, I suspect it's just immaturity - how many many serious/hardcore/older fans still post regularly in places like wkml, ffnet etc?

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

how many many serious/hardcore/older fans still post regularly in places like wkml, ffnet etc?

I believe those fans got driven away by the immature ones *L*

[mirichan.livejournal.com]

I think it is the same argument for GW, which is why there is not much doujinship around... most people feel one should buy them and encourage the artists...

I think it's less prevalent in newer fandoms because as it gets easier and easier to get stuff free... (I mean I BOUGHT Gundam Wing DVDs... nobody need to buy POT episodes since it's fansub from the net presently) it means more and more newer fans feel free to share everything and most people don't bother to buy stuff anymore...

[vicky-guu-sama.livejournal.com]

i am not very familiar with WK..but it is the way that the anime is which attracts different fans yah~~~ PoT is like still more unfinished, than WK as welll.....

and I can imagine PoT having a more of a comedy base than WK...
i am not too sure, but somtimes it is new fans and old fans, maybe if PoT eventually has a proper end..... then people will also start getting lazy about fandom'ing..

[pyroh.livejournal.com]

True, true... Really, the only thing I've seen bad about the Tenipuri fandom is that a few people who I won't name can be vicious about some pairings, mostly the mainstream ones that 'make no sense' (i.e. "Tezuka and Momo have more interaction than Tezuka and Fuji, yet why is ZukaFuji so popular and ZukaMomo is unheard of? ZukaFuji fans are so stupid for trying to make up something that isn't there. Of all people in this fandom, I can't stand them." ...Yes, I've seen something like that >_< ) But what fandom doesn't have that? O_o Plus, everyone in tenipuri_yaoi are adults or they are doing a good job of acting like an adult and fooling us moderators. (The Tenipuri fandom as a whole has more adults than it does children, I think...) Pairing bashing and such on the community aren't tolerated and are immediately deleted anyway. Another rule on the comm is that no one is allowed to make a post in which they only ask for a file. Those posts are usually covered up with something like "here I'm offering this and this" then at the bottom of their post "btw, does anyone have or know where I can find this?" Tricky they are, but it's all good in that form. ^^

From what I can tell, the WK fandom is mostly made up of a bunch of kids and teenagers (then again, I think it was intended for the teenybopper audience...cause I started getting into the series when I was 16 >_> Have matured since then, but still...) And like you said, most people don't know how to share files since they're too busy asking for people to send stuff to them. I think the biggest thing I asked for was the first Schwarz drama CD, and after you sent that to me, I uploaded that to my site so others can grab that and/or the second drama. In response to that, I think I've only recieved one, maybe two 'thank you' from people that go to my Schwarz site. ...And yet I got several emails full of glomps and 'thank you' (and even souls ^^;; ) for uploading Eyes and then Breath to my Tenipuri shrine. There's definitely a difference of appreciation between the two fandoms. >_>

But anyway, even if people don't take the time to tell you, I'm sure they do appreciate your hard work and generosity with sharing the content you've uploaded to your sites. You get lots of visitors, so that shows some amount of love, ne? ^_^

Gah...please excuse my rambling x_x

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

Hei, I got into WK when I was 16 as well! It's been so many years...

Think I'm going to use that trick as well. Gonna post up fanart and then ask for translations to Shinkokyuu and Free as a Bird *L* It's all about giving and receiving...

I think I know who you're talking about with the ZukaMomo business. I still remember what a friend said to me, the ultimate truth of shounen-ai and yaoi: If you want them together, put them together! XD The reasons? Make them up as you go!

Better again and late than not at all...?

[delphi-musings.livejournal.com]

Sorry about not relaying my thanks and appreciation as often as I should. I’m a bit timid when talking to people I’m impressed by. I’m sorry that more people don’t tell you how much they appreciate the work that you put do. From hosting contests to putting up translations and even entire episodes - You do a lot. Thanks to you, I actually got to see Gluhen. Which, besides some fundamental flaws, really wasn’t so bad…sidetrack there.. ;)
But yea, I do see what you’re saying about the caliber of fans being different. I haven’t gone spelunking in the net for POT in the past semester or so, but the last time I did, POT seemed to have a friendlier, share based group… jes_schu and others are probably right with the sentiment that fans of Prince of Tennis are at different levels… I hope that other WK fans catch up soon for everyone’s sake. Every time I read a horrible story I always have to take the sting away by reading something that I hold up as awesome. Not that I mind going back and re-reading things, I’m just distressed over how often I find myself going back to archives more and more - A sign of the times I guess. Less quality, more quantity…
I never really thought about it, but your right, POT fans are more easy going when it comes to pairings. That’s pretty neat actually. I can only suppose it has to do with the nature of the shows. WK is pretty serious and drama/action driven. While POT does have its share of drama *gratuitous Tezuka drama reference*, it is more lighthearted about it. It isn’t physical life or death. Although, I think the day the team sees Tezuka snogging for the first time, someone will have a heart attack.

Anyways…This was supposed to be just another short simple note to say thanks for being about and doing really cool stuff in both fandoms. :)

Thanks from me and thanks from those whom I’ve shared what you’ve shared with me! <-- Complex enough?

Re: Better again and late than not at all...?

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

Thanks ^^

Looking at it now, I think I see one source of the problem. The WK fanbase mainly hopped around WKML, but before Manon became mod (recently), the ML had no moderator to speak of... things in mod-less MLs tend to turn sour pretty quickly. No one to encourage courteous speaking or feedbacks or constructive conversations. -_- Manon's doing a great job now, but I wonder if the fans are going to realise the change they (may) need to make things better.

Less quality, more quantity...

*thinks of ff.net* *shudders*

I like the fact that there are so many characters in PoT one just *have* to accept all sorts of possible pairings (although I really can't stomach TakaFuji *L*)

the day the team sees Tezuka snogging for the first time

Probably Kaidou *L* The Pillar-of-Seigaku, the Student-Council-President, the One-Nobody-Messes-With, *snogging*. Oh gosh...
(and it's pure coincidence I just drew fanart of Tezuka snogging Fuji, I swear)

Thanks very much for your reply. ^^ Hope there will be nicer WK fans in the future!