Beta

[pez]

I really, really want betas like the ones Chrissie has: people who would question why something was written in a particular way rather than just put it down to style. The writer doesn't have to take on any of the comments, of course, but she should seriously think about each comment; sometimes a writer can get so immersed in her own style that she forgets the basic techniques of writing, if you know what I mean.

I also think such betas would be useful for many other writers. Sometimes I read something and I know it's because of the style that things are written the way they are but I also know it could be so much better or just less bad if they had someone look at it and question it.

Not many people can accept having their work beta-ed this way, though. Betas like this are hard to find, but writers who don't have the stick up their ass far enough to just say "ha, it's my style, if you don't like then don't read" are probably even harder to find.

It's the difference between the works that lots of people comment and say it's great, and the works that lots of people comment and say it's great, AND still refer fandom n00bs to it a few years later.

Comments

[giving-ground.livejournal.com]

There have been occasions when I've been really desperate for feedback like that and all I could get from anyone was "yeah, it's good, just fix [random grammatical error x]"... I do sting when I get criticism, of course I do, but I also know that it would help me produce better stories.

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

Getting crit takes some guts. If it's too much then I reckon the next best thing is to let it sit, DON'T LOOK AT IT, EVER for at least a few weeks. Then when you look at it again it'd be like reading your own old fic... you know how sometimes you read old stuff and say OMG WHY DID I WRITE IT LIKE THAT...

This, of course, don't work when you have deadlines to adhere to. =/

[seraphim-grace.livejournal.com]

I have a beta like that, he has skin like leather because he knows if he is too harsh, in my opinion, that I'll vent at length before instituting the changes he suggested
i might get back a fic with X wouldn't do this, as the only note
or a whole passage marked up with "written by a muppet perhaps"
the irony is he's usually right

I encourage crit because it allows a lot of growth, I know there are things that we all need to work on (I like loooooong sentences and am working on it) and as a writer we genuinely can't see them, we're up too close, even on a reread because we're automatically back in that place we were when we wrote it
it hurts when i get a story back with a line through it and told to do it again, which i do with pwp lemons if he considers them too formulaic but the difference in feedback when i do do it again is astonishing.
trusting him is easy because I've known him since i was tiny, but trusting him with my writing often still causes explosions with me screaming you don't know what you're talking about, i did that deliberately.

[potter.livejournal.com]

I absolutely agree. Laura betas my work and she's not only got eagle eyes, she knows that she can say to me, "I don't think this sentence makes sense the way you've written it" or "this is too confusing", and that's something I'm really grateful for. There's a lot of things that I do that are my style, but are also REALLY bad when I do them too much, and I do need somebody to tell me to rein it in a bit, haha.

I mean, man, my biggest writing pet peeve is people who say, "Oh, you don't understand my work? It must be beyond you." No, it just doesn't MAKE SENSE. A good beta writer is worth their weight in gold, and I just, absolutely agree with you on this.

[eames.livejournal.com]

A good beta writer is worth their weight in gold, and I just, absolutely agree with you on this.

That's an overused metaphor. You may want to think of a....

Oh, sorry. Force of habit. :P

It helps living with an English teacher, it really does. Nitpicking sod that she is.

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

XD And if my beta says this, I might say I do like overused metaphors and cliches. Because I do! But of course it depends on the story, maybe something else more creative would be more suitable...

[eames.livejournal.com]

Agreed. (I was just annoying her deliberately, though. Such is my hobby. XD)

Being a beta for Cat is a total joy, because I love her writing, and I want her to get better and better all the time. Not just because she's my best friend, but having seen the leaps and bounds her writing has made since she started her Creative Writing MA, I feel like I'm seeing the work of someone who could be published one day take form, and tighten, and only get more beautiful every time I read something. I can't understand why anyone wouldn't enjoy being a beta, really. I find it really exciting. *is a dork*

I don't think I could beta for someone who was oversensitive, or a total diva about their writing, though. That would drive me crazy. Cat is a perfect writer to beta for, because she takes criticism objectively, and isn't afraid to tell me if she disagrees, nor is she too proud to say that I might be right, and change something accordingly. All in all, I think we're a good combination *refrains from singing Tenimyu songs* and when you find a beta that just clicks with you, it's great.

I just wish I had time to write fic myself at the moment, instead of essays on 19th Century Literature. :/

[pixxers.livejournal.com]

My beta is the anti-christ. When I send something to him for a run-through, he doesn't pull any punches and that's the way it should be. About every nine months, I go back and re-read things I've written previously and I can see changes for the better. In the moment, it's too easy to get caught up in the story and the creativity to really notice little things you're doing wrong that have become habit. I am incredibly grateful for his time and his input (and I have two close friends who beta for my fanfiction, too, and they've absolutely had a positive influence on my writing.) I'm very choosy about who I'll accept criticism from, but when it's coming from people I trust, I'm always happy to get it.

[arithion.livejournal.com]

Beta's who do that are amazing - because a lot of the time it was people who loved your story who would offer. My first beta (GW) sucked because of this. She never, ever pulled me up on anything. But then I met a group of friends who pulled me up on everything, and it made me a better writer for it.

In o-fiction it's the same. You don't need people looking at your work who'll just put what you've written down to style - you need people you trust who are willing to poke it/ spork it and say - uh - you there - safe in your style, question this. Anything that stops the flow of the reading, confuses the reader, or has a chance to sound out of character for your character is wrong.
And it's just as applicable in fan fiction.

It's nice when you can see the improvements you've made :)

I ramble lol *hugs*

[reposoir.livejournal.com]

But the problem is finding betas like that in the first place...and then having enough confidence to still keep writing afterwards...o.0

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

Yes. But in terms of confidence, doesn't it already take a lot of confidence to post a piece of work? To post a piece of writing without having sought a second opinion first - that takes a lot of guts, really, because posting means you're opening it for anyone to criticise and having it unbeta-ed means the chance of some random person jumping on and nitpicking on things is greater.

[reposoir.livejournal.com]

Okay, yeah, that's true also (Didn't even think about that aspect of it, to be honest!) So...does that mean we authors should get bravery medals? ;D

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

It's a little like American Idol, really. Some people go because they're shameless, but the rest are there hoping they have something good and open themselves for criticism. I think it really takes a lot of guts!

We should at least get gold stars. :D

[dynastic.livejournal.com]

I echo everyone else's comments. I have issues finding betas to begin with, but to find a beta that treats a piece of work like seems pretty hard to find, too.

[xiu]

I am sad that arudaur died (well, he didn't, but he moved in with his gf and doesn't have internet at their apt so I can't harass him XD That, and I'm usually too nice to make him beta gay porn). I kind of liked having a beta that wasn't in any of my fandoms, if only because he could look at things and go THIS IS BAD without any of the my perspective of characters vs beta's perspective of characters (not that that hurts any).

I like my style. Sure, it has its faults (I ♥ semicolons, parentheses and em dashes!), but that's how I learned and that's what I like. Too many periods annoy me and make things seem clunky/fragmented to me. Buuuut, if things sound awkward or whatever, I want to know XD But at the same time, I want to know from someone who actually has the "authority", so to speak, to tell me; ie, someone who *is* an excellent writer by my standards and I respect as an author. I think it's only Allison and one other girl (can't remember who ATM) who have actually given me good feedback . . . that is, not simply stylistic things they didn't like, etc. So. Kick my ass for word choice. Kick my ass for sentence fragments. Kick my ass for comma splices and awkward structure. When you're done with that, you can kick my ass for anything else. XD; I'm not going to get butthurt over someone telling me that things need to be fixed or questioning why I wrote something. Yeah, it's a kick in the gut sometimes, but I can handle it. I survived three hard-assed English professors, I can take random internet person. XD

I'm not one of the big-name writers, so to speak. Not many people (that I'm aware of) read my stuff if it's not in an anonymous exchange. I'm fine with that. I'd rather have a handful of well thought out comments to a fic than pages of fangirl spooge because OMG YOU WROTE MY FAVOURITE PAIRING LIKE EVAR11!!11ICHI I think this may have something to do with the fact that I don't usually write pairings anyone but me and 3.5 other people in the fandom likes. :D;

Annnd as a beta, I do tend to only look for mechanical errors/characterization/etc unless asked otherwise. Honestly, I hate much else than that, because well, everyone has their own style and their own voice, and I don't want to beat anyone over the head with what I didn't like. XD Though half the time anyone asks me "Is there anything wrong with this, does it make sense, blahblahblah, etc", there usually isn't XD ...mostly I think I just fail at constructive criticism. :D;; I am totally not the person to go to for that.

But yeah. Sometimes I go back and read things I wrote six months ago, go "..wtf was I thinking?", fix it, then come back a year later and again, go "wtf was I thinking?" XD;

That said, I now go attempt to get some work done on that balls fic so I can force you to beta it.

(Too lazy to write a long reply.)

[yuki-scorpio.livejournal.com]

♥